What is it about this trope that attracts so much attention? I've never understood the edit wars that broke out — and clearly still break out — over it. Looney Toons (talk) 04:17, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
- I checked the edits in question, most of the deletions was condensing a lot of entries and stripping out a ton of natter. Obviously unjustified removals will be handled, but the recent edits look legit to me. GethN7 (talk) 04:32, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
The Other Trope Wiki has slowly made their definiton of this trope so narrow and absurdly spefitic it all but chokes the life out of it, so that may be part of the problem
Shoboni (talk) 17:55, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
What happened to this trope?[]
What the hell happened here? I leave this site for a couple of days and the next minutes all of the Complete Monsters are gone! I spent a lot of time and effort on some of those entries.
What the hell happened?
Rainer.chesterhall (talk) 11:06, October 14, 2019 (UTC)
Edit warring and sock puppet abuse happened. It got so out of hand the moderators just gave up and decided to end it. I hope those edit warrers are proud of themselves. If getting the Complete Monster trope kicked off this wiki was their goal, they succeeded. They can now go and party and play 'Celebrate Good Times, Come on!' and dance all day and night in celebration.
But for those of us who thought the Complete Monster trope was a good trope for discussing what sort of villain is WAY too horrible to sympathise with, it's a loss to us. This is Why Fandom Can't Have Nice Things. Chris Lang (talk) 12:02, October 14, 2019 (UTC)
I still don't understand why the examples got removed on THIS site, since the main problem was on the Miraheze site rather than here on Wikia. Did Geth N7 just get cold feet?
For the time being, the examples are all on an alternate Trope Wiki, The True Tropes, but we're going to need more users and editors on there (A LOT more) if we're to make it as great as the old All The Tropes version that was so senselessly abused until it was done away with.
DocColress (talk) 20:57, March 5, 2020 (UTC)
In my opinion, the page should be restored. Just ignore edit warrers. If we start removing examples, this site becomes just a worse version of TV Tropes. ----
- First of all its four tildes for signatures, not four dashes. Second of all, even without the edit warrers, the rules were just too dang broken as it was, including using rather cheap excuses to keep characters off like saying they're not "sufficiently heinous enough" despite the story MORE than making clear they were indeed that (not to mention conducting at least two MEHs that he himself said were required to qualify), being inconsistently applied even within the same work in probably the worst form of Moral Dissonance possible (probably the worst example of this is Snake Eater regarding Volgin and The Boss, where only Volgin qualified for nuking Groznyj Grad despite The Boss not only doing the EXACT same thing Volgin did but had even LESS of an excuse, just because the story treated her as good despite it being the exact same action the Complete Monster took that was rightfully treated as a MEH in his case), and basically the guy overrunning it basically making it his hugbox (even adding examples despite violating the rules he himself put in place). And I wasn't fond of the implication that absolute black and white morality wasn't allowed. And besides, his rewriting the whole thing was arguably destroying the entire point as formulated by the actual creator of the trope. And it is a shame that Complete Monster had to go, as there was genuine potential there especially with absolute black and white morality. Unfortunately, it was rewritten to essentially be extremely inconsistent in practice, so it was ultimately for the better that it got axed. And if I must be blunt, GethN7 knows a lot about cold feet, practiced it with him when, despite clearly agreeing that Maleficent did in fact qualify with the points I brought up, he sided with him afterward. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:03, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
- The above spells out a lot of why it was axed (and I stand by that decision, but here' some more to put this to bed). ATT wanted to be a better alternative to TV Tropes, yes, and one of those ways that would be done was to avoid allowing festering tumors of drama to grow until they became sitewide disruptions. The CM had become such a drama magnet the examples were axed and allowed to be ported elsewhere because ATT doesn't want to axe tropes or works pages without due legal cause, but that by no means includes being obligated to allow examples for them of people cannot be reasonable and mature about doing so. Put simply, the immaturity of those who invested drama into the trope got it cut, and it stays cut, free of nothing more than a basic description. The trope can still be given examples elsewhere, The True Tropes Wiki exists for that purpose, but only because they want to risk the drama we did not. The CM trope will not be allowed examples on it ever again, this is final. GethN7 (talk)
- Agreed. It's already seen enough problems as it is. And if, in the very unlikely event that All the Tropes ever does bring back the Complete Monster examples, it's better if we use the definition as originally envisioned by the guy who actually created the trope, which I even supplied in the link above. In other words, basically make it the Villain version of the Scrappy. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 13:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
- I will note that CM examples are currently still allowed on The True Tropes, and aside from one persistent ban evader who pops up every now in a blue moon and whose presence and activities are always obvious so he's easy to get rid of, it's not been anywhere near the drama magnet and time sink it was on ATT. If anyone on ATT is still yearning for examples and somehow don't know about the resolve of TTT, they need to be informed. I'd like to think that the other Wiki's management of the trope, as well as TV Tropes', help highlight the folly of the direction ATT sadly took, but I think someone like Weedle McHairybug advocating for keeping the trope purged of content and examples sort of already does that on it's own. DocColress (talk) 16:25, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- DocColress, you're a large part of the reason why the Complete Monster trope had to go, and especially your broken redefinition of the trope, AND your insistence on violating your own rules when adding characters in despite violating some of the statements you put in. And I'm still not fond of how you implied earlier that absolute black and white morality had no place on the trope, either, which if anything made the situation even worse, whereas I at least attempted to follow through with the rules as specifically laid out on what qualifies (I even went as far as to outright list Zeno from Dragon Ball Super as being exempt from the Complete Monster category and specifically list him as being among those who should NOT be included on the list purely because the story treated him as good, and that was DESPITE these pages from the Manga definitely pointing to him qualifying for entry, basically reaching Zamasu's level if not even WORSE than that, not to mention my outright hating him largely THANKS to that and the anime Tournament of Power saga. If I can specifically exempt him from entry despite being completely disgusted with his actions and viewing him as completely and utterly irredeemable from that saga, to say little of my personal hatred for him for what is perfectly justified reasons thanks to that arc, simply because the story made it very clear he was a good guy even during that time, it's very obvious I was being very objective regarding my additions and going strictly by the rules you laid out.). Besides, your rewriting the trope arguably destroyed the entire POINT of the trope (it was specifically INTENDED to be the Villain version of the Scrappy, as Hckleinman pointed out on his tumblr blog, and he's the guy who created the trope in the first place. In fact, he was downright FURIOUS thanks to your redefining of the trope that Harry Lime ended up qualifying under the new definition). Besides, last I checked, the first time I got banned from here was specifically because I tried to add in an entry (Maleficent), NOT because of trying to remove content. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:56, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- I'll let the above ride for now, but if comments get more inflammatory, then I start cutting them down. That said, I don't disagree for the most part. ATT does not WANT nor NEED drama. If tossing CM examples over a cliff ended our drama with that, then so be it, end of story, subject is closed. In fact, unless there is anything brought to the table after this that has not already been mentioned, then, and I address Doc here, you have your sandbox, but this one will not be the one you used to have, so I suggest you enjoy what you have, not grouse about what you no longer have. GethN7 (talk) 16:54, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
- DocColress, you're a large part of the reason why the Complete Monster trope had to go, and especially your broken redefinition of the trope, AND your insistence on violating your own rules when adding characters in despite violating some of the statements you put in. And I'm still not fond of how you implied earlier that absolute black and white morality had no place on the trope, either, which if anything made the situation even worse, whereas I at least attempted to follow through with the rules as specifically laid out on what qualifies (I even went as far as to outright list Zeno from Dragon Ball Super as being exempt from the Complete Monster category and specifically list him as being among those who should NOT be included on the list purely because the story treated him as good, and that was DESPITE these pages from the Manga definitely pointing to him qualifying for entry, basically reaching Zamasu's level if not even WORSE than that, not to mention my outright hating him largely THANKS to that and the anime Tournament of Power saga. If I can specifically exempt him from entry despite being completely disgusted with his actions and viewing him as completely and utterly irredeemable from that saga, to say little of my personal hatred for him for what is perfectly justified reasons thanks to that arc, simply because the story made it very clear he was a good guy even during that time, it's very obvious I was being very objective regarding my additions and going strictly by the rules you laid out.). Besides, your rewriting the trope arguably destroyed the entire POINT of the trope (it was specifically INTENDED to be the Villain version of the Scrappy, as Hckleinman pointed out on his tumblr blog, and he's the guy who created the trope in the first place. In fact, he was downright FURIOUS thanks to your redefining of the trope that Harry Lime ended up qualifying under the new definition). Besides, last I checked, the first time I got banned from here was specifically because I tried to add in an entry (Maleficent), NOT because of trying to remove content. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:56, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
- The above spells out a lot of why it was axed (and I stand by that decision, but here' some more to put this to bed). ATT wanted to be a better alternative to TV Tropes, yes, and one of those ways that would be done was to avoid allowing festering tumors of drama to grow until they became sitewide disruptions. The CM had become such a drama magnet the examples were axed and allowed to be ported elsewhere because ATT doesn't want to axe tropes or works pages without due legal cause, but that by no means includes being obligated to allow examples for them of people cannot be reasonable and mature about doing so. Put simply, the immaturity of those who invested drama into the trope got it cut, and it stays cut, free of nothing more than a basic description. The trope can still be given examples elsewhere, The True Tropes Wiki exists for that purpose, but only because they want to risk the drama we did not. The CM trope will not be allowed examples on it ever again, this is final. GethN7 (talk)
Why did the examples come back?[]
I just want to know why the example pages have been added back after being removed. Don't we have "The True Tropes Wiki" for that? Miru96 (talk) 21:22, 12 February 2022 (UTC)